Evolution of Dispossession

Evolution of Dispossession
How to Steal a Country?

Monday, December 17, 2007

Very Encouraging

Pledges made for the Palestinian people are very encouraging.

The Gaza has been completely cut off by Israel. Palestinians cannot leave and essentials like food, sugar, wheat flour, and medical supplies cannot enter.

It is nice to see the morally conscious people of the world pledge their help.

Of course, it did not have to get to this point in the first place ; Israeli maltreatment and contravention of international law and UN resolutions with its illegal occupation have led to this humanitarian crisis.


wdporter said...

c'mon, man.

Gaza's being cut off was forced by Hamas' taking such a strangle-hold. They are not blameless in this, by a long shot.

Citing International Law and UN resolutions is accurate, but largely irrelevant. Hamas has severely exacerbated the situation, don't you think?

wdporter said...

And do you think that the evil Zionist U.S. donating a serious chunk of money to Fatah in the West Bank is a positive development for the Palestinian people?

scottie said...

the money pledged by the americans is dwarfed by the 7 billion pledged by european nations.

we cannot get past this very cimple point :

us touts democracy in the middle east
palestinians vote for hamas in a free election
hamas is sanctioned by the us immediately, against the urgings of olmert

now we give money to fatah to disempower the victors of the free election

its actually a more benign version of what our cia has done to dozens of governments around the world ; sometimes a cia coup did the job, and many times it was the cia funding the opposition and training their militias which resulted in very bloody results, but favorable outcomes with respect to the US corporate agenda

Liberal White Boy said...

I don't mean to be disrepectful here wd but I don't know where you could possibly be getting your information. Here is something I look at quite a bit. From B'tSelem so far this year 1 Jewish child was killed in the usual violence to 52 Palestinain children. Last year 2 Jewish children to 139 Palestinian children. It seems to me that Hamas is the best thing to come along for some time. Who was the recent violence in Gaza caused by? The Zionist criminal Elliot Abrams working in the Bush Administration. He was running guns in Gaza to a local Gaza War Lord in hopes that he would overthrow the Democratically elected Palestinian government. You really need to start paying attention.

MOM said...

Hi, Butch,

After recently visiting Israel and seeing what the "wall" and other strangle-holds (including economic warfare) against the Palestinians, both in Jerusalem and the Occupied Territories, (including a "racist" traffic-light which allows only 5 or 6 seconds for Palestinians from their section of Jerusalem to access a main highway--I say this to indicate the degree to which that government goes, even in a minute way, in their psychological warfare), I am convinced that Israel is not serious about the peace-process. Minorities in almost all free countries are protected. The exact opposite is the case in Israel.

Israel has a per capita income higher than most victims of Katrina in New Orleans and still we do not hold them responsible for basic human rights; still we subsidize what they are doing. It is morally wrong to divert money from our own minorities to reinforce a system that seeks to subjugate or obliterate their minority population.

wdporter said...

First Scottie, you make great points about the Bush Administration supporting Hamas after democratic elections.

I would say in general that being democratically elected does not excuse bad behavior. If I'm not mistaken, there have been many regime's across our globe's history that have been democratically elected, and that does not mean they are blameless.

Again, I'm not excusing Israel's bad behavior, I'm saying that Hamas, democratically elected or not has made it VERY EASY for Israel to continue to be assholes.

Just my two cents. Merry Christmas everyone, and happy new year.

scottie said...

wow, now we are cooking.

very nice discussion !

B'tSelem is a very reputable human rights sight in Israel. They do great work. If you have not seen "Occupation 101" it might be the best documentary ever. (B'tSelem figures are used extensively in it) A collection of Middle East scholars and US diplomats and Israeli journalists participate, and it puts a human face on the Palestinian humanitarian crisis, and it accurately portrays the problem of occupation, any occupation, and its toll on thinking, breathing human beings.

Our media apparatus traditionally has been very pro-Israel, but I have noticed some marginal inclusion of dissenting opinions lately, but "Occupation 101" does much to tear down the endless propaganda we see on this issue in the US.

When Steve Rosen (before his indictment for passing sensitive materials gained from Larry Franklin to Israel) claims to Jeffrey Goldberg at a restaurant that he could have 70 senators names on a napkin tomorrow for any issue he wanted (pertaining to Israel), it also speaks to other facets of the problem, namely AIPAC's very successful achievement in conflating Israel's interests with the US's national security interests.

I am now reading the entire book, not the essay, "The Israel Lobby" by Walt and Mearsheimer. It is very good so far.

scottie said...

WD, that is a very reasonable position.

I know that Hamas winning elections does not give them a carte blanche to violate international law. And they do make an easy target for assholish Israeli policy.
But they did honor a self-imposed 18 month cease-fire that was effectively scuttled by the invasion of Gaza in 2006 (immediately prior to the Lebanon bombing). It seemed at that critical juncture that Hamas was trying to transform itself from a "terrorist" organization to a legitimate political group.

We will never know if that would have worked because we are propping up Fatah with Abbas at the helm in the West Bank and cornering Hamas into the Gaza where the situation is pretty grim and worsens by the day.

I am not here to sing praises for Hamas. They have done some very objectionable things, both immoral and illegal.

But lip service about democracy always come with crucial caveats.

I liked Ron Paul's comments on Israel and Iran when he was interviewed by Glen Beck the other day.

Merry Christmas to you and yours :-)